Hi there! I, too, an new to all this forum lark, but had to respond to you. I'm not a lot of help I'm afraid. We too have 2 border collie pups that are now 9 months old, and we are still having trouble house training at night! Also have a golden retriever (2 years +, and rescued just over a year ago) who is perfect!!! Like you, our pups came from a farm but were over 5 months when we had them, so I wondered if it was already ingrained to pee and pooh whenever and wherever. Even in the day they need to go frequently, so I don't like leaving them too long. They do use the old towels provided in one corner, so it's not too much of a headache, and they are much better than they were. Some of the problem, I believe, having had many dogs over 50 years now, without a problem, is that there are 2 siblings. One of ours will now bark to be let out, and the other will just do what he has to do without fuss,(I don't know which I prefer in the night!!!). Well, I think that's the case, and I've only just determined which one does what. Up until now it's been impossible to tell. I've brought their evening meal time forward to 5pm from 6pm. They have to have 2 small meals as the retriever has a hiatus hernia. It has helped, so possibly one feed a day in the morning might solve the problem, but yours are a bit young for that really. Ours always go out with my husband at about 11pm and usually do everything they should (unless the weather is dreadful) but it makes no difference. However, we are now getting 2 or 3 clean nights a week, so I think there's light at the end of the tunnel as they grow up. All I can say is patience, praise, certainly no punishment, and attention to their habits before bedtime. I am reluctant to remove the towels - which may be encouraging their habit, as we have carpet underneath. We're resigned to the fact that it will take as long as it takes. I don't think there is such a thing as a quick fix, anyway. All dogs are different.